Most business owners know they need to be seen in order to be chosen, and most of them still flinch at the idea. The camera goes on and something tightens. The post gets drafted and then sits there. Or the content does go out, week after week, into what feels like a bottomless black hole, with no clear signal about whether any of it is doing a thing. Either way, the effort is real and the return is fuzzy, and that combination wears people down.

In this Double Kaufman episode of The Amanda Kaufman Show, co-host Rebecca Kaufman puts Amanda in the hot seat on visibility, a topic that came straight from listener requests. Amanda, founder of Clairvenu, admits it scared her badly when she started her own enterprise, and she has spent tens of thousands of dollars on marketing that did not pan out. She walks through what makes being seen feel so unnatural, the different reasons established owners pull back from it, the feedback loops that turned content from a black hole into a discipline, the difference between authenticity and integrity, and the lead indicators that tell you whether you are on track long before anyone hands you a credit card.

Being Seen Online Feels Unnatural Because We Are Wired to Seek Acceptance

The discomfort around visibility is real and physical, and it is not a character flaw. Even gregarious, extroverted people often behave very differently online, because putting yourself in front of strangers runs against how humans are wired.

How It Matters: People are built to seek acceptance, and when you are way out there in front of an audience you do not know, you have no idea how you will be received. Layer on a lifetime of conditioning and a steady diet of comparison media, images and clips and opinions that quietly set the standard, and it is natural to measure yourself against that standard and come up short. Amanda's observation is that when most people fall short, they start beating themselves up or slip back into whatever habit they reach for when they do not feel like a wonderful performer in an area.

How to Do It: Name it for what it is: a psychological and physiological challenge, not a sign that visibility is wrong for you. Amanda's encouragement at the close of the episode is to approach it as a discipline rather than an awful thing you will get to at some magical time in the future. Rebecca's own version is instructive. Her first attempts at working in the online space felt cringe, and probably were, but the more she exercised that muscle the better the product got.

Common Mistake: Treating the fear as proof that you are not cut out for it. Most people feel the exact same thing; the ones who get comfortable are simply the ones who kept practicing anyway.

Established Business Owners Avoid Visibility for Different Reasons Than Beginners

Once a business passes its first six figures, the owner has usually learned something important: you probably do not need to be all that visible to make sales.

How It Matters: Sales are a very connected, one-on-one thing, and Amanda notes that a surprising number of very successful businesses run on low visibility, especially online. A good connector with a strong referral network can stay plenty busy, and that is not a problem. What tends to get in the way for established owners is different. Many have put enormous effort into a professional persona that, without meaning to, comes across as distant, cold, and unapproachable. And because they have learned that boundaries matter, they guard their calendars closely. More visibility means more traffic, more interest, and more demands on time, so some owners avoid it simply because they do not want the extra work on their plate.

How to Do It: Get clear on the reason visibility matters for you in this season. Established owners have already proven they can sell, so Amanda's questions for them are different: does the current persona invite people in, and has room been made for the relationships visibility creates? Boundaries stay important even when you pursue more visibility; the goal is to hold them on purpose rather than let them become the excuse.

Common Mistake: Confusing a polished, professional image with an approachable one. A lot of established owners have built something that reads as competent and cold at the same time, and cold is hard to connect with.

Content Needs a Feedback Loop Instead of a Checked Box

The way out of the black hole is a feedback loop: knowing the job your content is supposed to do and regularly asking whether it is doing it.

How It Matters: What most business owners do, and what Amanda did for a long time, is adopt a set of behaviors, a rhythm, a routine, and then simply run it. Post, check the box, move on. It feels like throwing content into a hole with no idea whether there is a return. Amanda is still committed to being seen (she is recording the episode, after all), but the difference now is that she asks a specific question: for the amount of time, energy, and money going into this initiative, how much is coming out? Often the honest answer is very little, and she asks herself regularly whether she should even keep investing.

How to Do It: Ask that question on purpose, and expect the answer to be messy. Organic visibility rarely has a linear, spreadsheet-friendly attribution. What Amanda sees instead is that the right person eventually comes along and binges her content, and then, on a sales call, someone mentions an episode. That is the signal that keeps her going. It also means that if you have not been producing, there is nothing to binge, and a long gap gives the impression that you used to do a thing and then gave up. A certain amount of visibility is simple presence, and a check-the-box weekly video or podcast can accomplish that; it shows you care and have something to say.

Common Mistake: Pulling back from visibility because there is no standard for what "enough" looks like. Amanda's standard is that it is enough for people to mention her show and say they loved an episode. Without a standard like that, every effort feels like it fell short.

Content Works as Connective Tissue Between Real Conversations

Amanda describes content as connective tissue: something that gives people a reason to react in between the actual conversations that happen on calls and in meetings. Asking it to carry the entire business and future forward on its own is more weight than it was ever built to hold.

How It Matters: Amanda spends most of her time at home. She is not out in the community meeting people shoulder to shoulder, and she also wants to reach people who are not going to networking events. So she treats each episode as a public conversation, and that one conversation becomes the seed for a whole batch of smaller ones: shorts, reels, posts, and further conversations in writing. Doing that over and over keeps her present where her clients are already hanging out, on Facebook, LinkedIn, YouTube, and Instagram. There is workflow attached, make no mistake, but the job of the content is clear.

How to Do It: Decide what job your content is doing before you decide how much to produce. Amanda's answer is that content exists to give people something to react to. Once that is the job, the feedback loop is simple: are people reacting, and is it leading to conversations? Having a show also created a bonus job, since interviewing other people has led to relationships she would not otherwise have had.

Common Mistake: Putting too much weight on the content itself and expecting popularity or virality to do the work. Amanda is not trying to go viral; she is trying to stay in conversation.

Everything You Produce Is Authentic, So Measure Lead Indicators Instead of Perfection

Authenticity is not something you can fail at. The garbage is authentically garbage, because it was the best you could do in that moment, and your most brilliant speech is authentic too.

How It Matters: For a long time Amanda held herself to a standard that sounded reasonable: be consistent every single day, tell the truth, be authentic, write great hooks, be a little controversial without getting canceled, and then paying clients would throw money in her face. Everybody wants to be desired and picked. But what she actually needed to understand was the difference between lead metrics and lag metrics. A sale is a lag metric. A key performance indicator is a measurement taken on the journey, before anyone signs up or even opts in: views, comments, engagement, saves, shares. Those indicators show whether you are headed in the correct direction and, importantly, whether you can affect them.

How to Do It: Separate authenticity from integrity. Overtly lying or deceiving is an integrity problem, and integrity is for you to decide. Authenticity is automatic, even when it looks like stuttering, awkwardness, or running out of breath. That frees you to stop judging every piece of content as either perfect or unacceptable, and to start watching the indicators instead. Amanda's blunt take on the so-called "200 views jail" is that nobody is in jail; the skill needed to break through simply has not been developed yet, and skills can be built.

Common Mistake: Refusing to post more because it feels like a lot of work, without noticing what else is being refused: the practice, the chance to test ideas, and the chance to be seen through any lens other than the perfect one. In Amanda's words, if there is one thing that undermines connection, it is never having any kind of vulnerability.

Grow Social Capital, Because Bigger Accounts Get More Reach

Accounts with an established social presence grow faster and get more reach on their videos, even when the individual video is kind of crap. That is unpopular to say, and it changes what to work on.

How It Matters: Many people trying to gain visibility are doing nothing proactive to grow their audience. They go straight for the sale, straight to a cold stranger with no warm-up, no hello, no likability, and then feel surprised when that stranger scrolls on by. Nobody picks you when all you talk about is your pitch, your offer, and the thing you sell, because they never get a chance to learn who you are, what your values are, or whether they can trust you as a human.

How to Do It: Ask how you could grow the audience independent of the content quality, while still improving the content. For Amanda that has meant interacting with friends online, following and reacting to their work, and doing collaborations, which was part of the reason she started bringing interview guests onto the show. Then make growing those indicators the game: get genuinely excited about them, and let them become the outcomes you are looking for in the near term.

Common Mistake: Believing the most amazing words on the page or the most incredible cut will do it alone. Absent celebrity, the path is building social capital one interaction at a time and tracking the indicators that show it is working.

Conclusion

Visibility is uncomfortable because it is supposed to be; humans are wired to seek acceptance and to compare themselves against a standard that social media keeps raising. Established owners have their own reasons to pull back, from cold professional personas to fiercely guarded calendars. The way through is to know the job your content is doing, to treat it as connective tissue between real conversations rather than a popularity contest, and to install a feedback loop built on lead indicators instead of waiting on the sale. Remember that everything you produce is already authentic, so the standard can shift from perfect to improving. And build social capital deliberately, because reach follows reputation. Amanda's own numbers are the encouragement: she has personally sold over three million dollars, and she started with eight names on a post-it and hardly any of the social accounts she has now. What she did differently was go for it, and keep believing she could get better. Don't hold yourself to an impossible standard and then never get started.

To hear the full conversation, listen to Episode 364 of The Amanda Kaufman Show on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.

Frequently Asked Questions

What makes business owners afraid to be visible online?

People are wired to seek acceptance, and being in front of an audience you do not know means you cannot predict how you will be received. Add years of conditioning and constant comparison media that sets an unrealistically high standard, and most people naturally measure themselves against it and feel they fall short. Amanda notes that even very extroverted people often behave differently online for exactly these reasons.

Do you need to be visible online to make sales?

Not necessarily. Amanda points out that plenty of successful businesses, especially past their first six figures, run on low visibility, because sales are connected and one-on-one and referral networks can keep an owner plenty busy. Visibility matters more for reaching people you would never meet through networking, and for giving prospects a chance to know and trust you before a conversation ever happens.

How do I know if my content is actually working?

Set up a feedback loop: define the job your content is supposed to do, then regularly ask how much you are getting out for the time, energy, and money going in. Watch lead indicators such as views, comments, saves, and shares, since those show direction long before a sale does. Amanda's most reliable signal is when someone mentions an episode on a sales call.

What is the difference between authenticity and integrity in content?

Authenticity is automatic; everything you produce is the best you could do in that moment, whether it is brilliant or awkward. Integrity is about not lying or deceiving, and it is something you decide for yourself. Separating the two frees you from judging every post as perfect or unacceptable and lets you focus on getting better.

Where can I learn how to build a visibility and client acquisition system that actually works?

Amanda's free live training, How Serious Service Businesses Build High-Converting Funnels & Acquisition Systems That Run 24/7, walks through how the pieces of a service business fit together so visibility feeds real conversations and sales. Register at https://clairvenu.com/training. If you want an outside perspective on your specific situation, apply for a free Revenue Clarity Conversation at https://clairvenu.com.

Transcript

Rebecca Kaufman (00:01)

well hello there and welcome to another double Kaufman episode, which means you get me, Rebecca Kaufman, but more importantly, we get to pick my older sister's brain. Hello, Miss Amanda.

Amanda Kaufman (00:12)

Hello, I'm so excited you're here. Thank you for agreeing to do this.

Rebecca Kaufman (00:17)

Yes. Well, we're just having so much fun, so why not? But today we've got a dynamite topic. Amanda was really smart and she asked you guys what you wanted to hear more about. And today we're gonna talk about visibility and what that functions inside of your b business, what might be the typical stem lane blocks, and yeah, we're gonna get into it.

Amanda Kaufman (00:37)

Let's go. I I'm excited. I

Rebecca Kaufman (00:39)

We will, but like

Amanda Kaufman (00:40)

genuinely though, Rebecca, honestly, I'm really excited to talk about visibility because it scared shit out of me when I started my my whole enterprise. You probably even remember talking to me about it.

Rebecca Kaufman (00:52)

Well, I feel like it's never like not a conversation. You know what I mean? but you know what? I'm excited to get into it right after this quick message.

So we're talking about visibility. And I was confronted with visibility for this podcast actually quite recently when I like saw a clip of the podcast and I was like, that's what I look like on camera. That's cool. but I guess my question for you would be like when someone is struggling with visibility inside of their business, like what does that like tactically look like in their day-to-day?

Amanda Kaufman (01:39)

Yeah, most business owners do know that they need to be seen in order to be chosen. And so the thing is, is like it really is a scary idea because I think just

It's unnatural to be honest. You know, even even people who are very gregarious and outgoing and extroverted, they often will behave very differently, especially online. and it has to do with a lot of things with how we're wired. I mean, we're wired to seek acceptance and and when you're way out there in front of people, you don't know. You don't know how people are gonna receive you. And we

Also get like so much conditioning as we're growing up and going through the world and and especially now with social media, like we are consuming so much comparison media where it's just like images and pictures and videos and clips and opinions that are telling us like what the standard is. And if the standard is really high, then we naturally compare ourselves to that standard, and then if we fall short.

we start maybe beating ourselves up or getting into whatever habit we might have gotten into when we don't feel like we're a really wonderful performer in that area. So yeah, I think I think everybody knows like you gotta get out there, but I think like practically

Rebecca Kaufman (02:59)

Mm-hmm.

Amanda Kaufman (03:00)

it does present a lot of real psychological and physiological challenge.

Rebecca Kaufman (03:05)

Yeah, yeah. Like actually both. When you put it that way for sure. Okay, and so with your typical business owner that you're working with, they're not necessarily like that newbie entrepreneur. They're not like

getting their feet wet for the very first time. So like after you get past that like initial first ring of hell of like putting yourself out there in the first place, like what's kind of that next level problem that people come into next?

Amanda Kaufman (03:32)

I do think that the average business owner figures out once they've really gotten to like let's call it your first six figures of sales or you know you've maybe got a six-figure annual business, you've learned something important, which is you probably don't need to be all that visible to make sales.

Right, sales are a very connected

Rebecca Kaufman (03:49)

Yeah.

Amanda Kaufman (03:51)

thing, it's very one-on-one. So you'd be really surprised like how many, how many people actually have very successful businesses that are very low visibility, especially online. and to be honest, like that's not a problem, you know. You can you can be a very good connector and a networker, and you could have a lot of referral business that keeps you plenty busy. So then I think it kind of

raises this question of why visibility? You know, how come that's so important anyway? And for a lot of established entrepreneurs, they actually have this whole persona that they've put a huge amount of effort into, that is showing up as professional or in a particular way that happens to be very distant and very cold.

Maybe not by design, but but this desire to be seen in a certain way or a certain light can kind of show up as unapproachable.

Rebecca Kaufman (04:47)

Right.

Amanda Kaufman (04:48)

and so even like really established business owners, I think the other thing too is like when you're really established, you don't want to waste time.

And you don't want to spend time talking to people that are not likely to go anywhere as a relationship. So I find like that hyper vigilance around time and calendar can also get in the way of visibility because when you have more visibility you are going to

generate more more traffic, more interest, more, more things that demand on your time. So I think sometimes established business owners avoid it because they just don't want they don't want the extra work on their plate. They've learned the boundaries are really, really important, which I would agree are still important even if you do pursue more visibility.

Rebecca Kaufman (05:32)

So how

does someone who's balancing all of those things, like a lot of these people are like handling all of the hats inside of their business, like how do you find that right balance of putting enough effort towards your visibility? Like like how are you determining when that matters inside of your business, what your goals are in that season, and then like right sizing the effort so that you're not becoming just like a social media machine for your business all of a sudden?

Amanda Kaufman (05:58)

Yeah, that's such a interesting question.

Because I think it assumes that you can find balance with it. And I think the thing about content and social media and advertising is that it really can be this bottomless black hole.

I know what it's like firsthand to spend tens of thousands of dollars on a marketing strategy and not have it work out. Even if you put the hours in, even if you put the money in and you hire the talent and you do all of the

right things so that being said the way i think about it now i'm no longer in such a hole but the the way that i that i think about it now is like hey it will take effort we don't always know how much at the very beginning

And what really helps is having feedback loops. So what most business owners do, this is actually what most people do, is they adopt a a set of behaviors or a rhythm or a routine, and then they just do that. And then they check the box and they say, okay, well, I did it. And I did the same thing for a long time. And it did feel like this black hole that I was just throwing content into. And I was

dubious as to whether there was actually a return. Now you'll notice that we're actually doing an episode right now. So clearly I'm still committed to the strategy of being seen. The difference is I have feedback loops now.

So, what I mean by that is I don't just like put content out there and say, okay, big green check marked me. I made the effort. I'm asking the question: for the amount of time, energy, and money that goes into this initiative, how much am I getting out? And often the answer is none, very little. If I didn't have it though,

I ask myself very often, should I even keep

investing in this. And that question is actually really, really important. You should ask yourself that. I'm shoulding all over. But you know, like really ask yourself like, is it worth it? And the reason that I keep r recording these shows and I keep a like attempting to break through and attempting to to do these. I'm not trying to be viral or anything like that. It's because every time I think about quitting, you know what happens? On a sales call somebody actually mentions an episode.

Rebecca Kaufman (08:20)

You're like, dang it, gotta keep it going now, my god.

Amanda Kaufman (08:25)

So sometimes

I sometimes the thing about visibility is is it it doesn't have this like super linear track it in a spreadsheet attribution always, especially organic. What I found is is that when you're really present online consistently

That person comes along and consumes your content in a binge. That's usually what happens. And if you haven't been producing content, there's nothing to binge. And if you haven't been producing content for a while, it kind of gives the look like you used to do a thing, but then you gave up on it.

So a certain amount of visibility really is simple presence and you can accomplish that by having a check the box weekly video or a check the box weekly podcast and like it does show that you're that you care and that you have something to talk about.

I think one of the biggest reasons that people pull back from visibility is they don't really have that standard in mind of like, hey, if I do this it's enough. Like it's enough for me to have people mention my show and say, Wow, I love that episode.

Also found that having a show allows me to like interview other people, for example, and that's led to some really interesting relationships too. So I think sometimes when it comes to content, we put a little too much weight on the content itself, having to carry our entire business and our entire future forward. And that's really not that's really not it. Like it's more like I'm having a conversation publicly.

over and over and over again and I take this conversation and make no mistake there's workflow attached to it but I take this conversation and I make this conversation be kind of the seed that germinates a whole bunch of little conversations like shorts and reels and tweets and further conversations in writing. And by doing that over and over and over again it helps ensure that I I have presence where my clients are hanging out, which is on Facebook, LinkedIn, YouTube, Instagram and so on.

Rebecca Kaufman (10:23)

I think the thing that's like coming up in my brain to highlight as well is like the more you get practice in making content, whatever that style of content for you is, the also the better at it you get. Because like

I know for me, when I first started in social media land, like just trying to be someone who worked in the online space, period. it felt really cringe. And it probably was, candidly. Like it probably was. But the more I did it, the more I exercised that muscle, the better the product got as well.

Amanda Kaufman (10:54)

Yeah. Yeah. I think that that's so true. I think that deliberate practice does help with being able to create prolifically. And I think the other thing that's interesting about content is that I'm hearing a lot of pushback these days on people saying like, I don't like the advice of just p post more. And I'm like, Okay, all right, so that's your that's your preference to not have to post more.

And the consequence of saying like I don't want that work is you're also kind of saying I don't want that practice, I don't want that opportunity to test ideas, I don't want to be seen in any other lens than the perfect one. And if there's one thing that really undermines connection, it's never having any kind of vulnerability.

You know, we do these shows and we we select the topic, we have a conversation, it is real and unscripted. I am terrible with a teleprompter. Like I really am quite bad at it at this point.

Rebecca Kaufman (11:41)

Yeah. I am your

teleprompter now.

Amanda Kaufman (11:57)

You're my teleprompter

now. Yeah. Like sh for real, for for real. You are the reason I got dressed to do this ep episode. And we're gonna do a batch of episodes. So there's a hint there as well. I think I think the way you avoid the content being like a full-time job situation is know the job that you're having content do, and then have a feedback loop that says like, Hey, are we doing it? Are we accomplishing that goal? And for me, the goal largely is to

Give something for people to react to because I spend most of my time at home. I'm not out in the community meeting people shoulder to shoulder. And I also want to meet people who maybe aren't going to networking events and aren't, you know, available unless I'm there in their feed So, like to me, content is more of a connective tissue than it is about popularity or virality or anything like that. It's connective tissue that gives.

people something to react to in between conversations that that we have on meetings or or in calls.

Rebecca Kaufman (12:59)

Okay. Just in case you missed that, you need to go back and listen to the last minute or so. And while you're doing that, we're gonna play this quick ad.

I really like your idea of these feedback loops because I think that's part of what makes visibility such like a black hole is like people don't know

Amanda Kaufman (14:03)

Like people don't

Rebecca Kaufman (14:05)

what good looks like for them. Like, can you give us some examples of these feedback loops that you have in your business or ones that you've seen in your clients?

Amanda Kaufman (14:12)

Yeah, million person. because this did really confuse me for a really long time. Like all I knew for the longest time was I'm supposed to do social media because I'm a coach and I want to have an online business. Like I I I knew that I was supposed to do content. And then I was like, okay, well, I'm supposed to do content consistently. And then I was like, well, I need to do content consistently that is authentic. And I've got like a whole thing about that. Everything you produce is authentic.

Okay, like the garbage is authentically garbage. Because it's the best that you could do at that moment, right? and like your most brilliant speech is also authentic. Like it's it's really impossible to be anything other than authentic. And you know, I think people get really hung up on this is they don't want to be thought of as lacking integrity, which I think is different.

You know, if you're like overtly attempting to lie and deceive, that's an integrity thing, not an authenticity thing. And when you realize that you literally have no choice but to be authentic, and even if it's authentically stuttering and authentically awkward and authentically running out of breath,

You you realize that like your integrity, that's for you. Like that's for you to decide you're operating with integrity. So, I share that because when it comes to the feedback loop thing, I didn't know what good looked like, and I used to hold myself to a really high standard where it's like, okay, I'm consistent every single day, and I'm telling the truth and being authentic, and

You know, I'm I'm I'm really pushing this this envelope, and I've taken all the training on writing hooks, and I've I've learned how to talk about things controversially, but not in a way that gets you canceled. And like all of these, all of these concerns, right? And all the time, here's what I did need to know: there are lead metrics and there are lag.

Metrics and the standard I was holding myself to is if I can just be consistent and perfect enough, then I will get paying clients throwing money in my face. And I think everybody wants that. Everybody wants to be desired, everybody wants to be picked and chosen, right?

Rebecca Kaufman (16:16)

Amen.

Amanda Kaufman (16:20)

And

Like no one's gonna pick you if all you're doing is talking about your pitch or your offer or the thing that you sell and they don't get a chance to get to know who the heck you are. And they don't get to see like what are your values? Like how do I

Rebecca Kaufman (16:35)

Yeah.

Amanda Kaufman (16:35)

how do I know I can trust you as a human? And so I had to really learn, like, there's lead indicators as well. And there's these key performance indicators. And I like, what the hell are all these different kinds of indicators and metrics?

A key performance indicator is a measurement that we take that's on the journey of the process. So instead of waiting until the very end where you've got somebody throwing a credit card at your face or signing up or even opting into something.

We can look at some indicators that we're on the right track. So an indicator could be the number of views that something gets. An indicator could be how many comments or engagements you're getting, how many saves or shares you're getting. If you're posting something, and like I've heard on Instagram like the 200 view jail 200 views jail, they call it 200 views jail. And I'm like, you're not in jail, bro. Your stuff just sucks. And it's it's not it's not that you suck as a human, it's that

whatever skill is necessary to break through, you haven't gotten it yet. And so when I did finally slow down and ask the question like, what are the indications that I am headed in the correct direction?

And how can I affect those indications? You know, this is not popular to talk about, but did you realize that bigger accounts get more views? Meaning, like

Rebecca Kaufman (17:57)

What?

Amanda Kaufman (17:58)

if you already have a lot of followers, no do, right? But think about this. So many people, when they're trying to gain visibility online, they're not doing anything proactively to grow their audience. They're just going straight for the sale. And they're they're going straight to

They're going straight to a cold stranger with no warm-up, no hi, how are you, no likability, none of that. Just blamo, here's my offer. And then they're surprised when that perfect stranger is like, yeah, no, and and and just scrolls on by.

The people who have built more of a social presence and have like social capital, meaning that they are building reputation essentially in these social channels, they grow faster and their videos get more reach, even if the video itself is kind of crap. And so when I realized this as I was as I was really getting intentional about visibility, I was like, what can I do to grow?

My eminence, what can I do to grow my social capital? And like one of those things is I could interact with my friends online and follow their stuff and react to their stuff. And I could do collaborations, and that was part of the reason behind bringing on people into doing interviews here on the show. I was started to just ask myself like, how could I grow the audience independent of the content quality? Now, of course, I'm still growing the content quality.

But I think a lot of people really believe that if I just have the most

Amazing

Rebecca Kaufman (19:33)

Perfect.

Amanda Kaufman (19:34)

words on the page or the most incredible cut. Or if I was just a celebrity, I'm like, gosh, wouldn't it be nice, you know, to be a celebrity in Hollywood. But absent that, like, we need other indicators that were on track. And that's how you play the game, is is you you get really excited about growing those indicators and those become the outcomes that you're looking for.

Rebecca Kaufman (19:57)

Okay, I love it. We got one more message for you before you wrap things up.

So any final notes on visibility? Any last like hurrass? I love that comment about like making this a game for yourself to up level. Like any final thoughts?

Amanda Kaufman (20:43)

would approach it as a discipline.

I would not approach it as this awful thing that you're gonna get to some magical time in the future. And I would also encourage you that the biggest, most prolific companies out there, they have personal brands leading the way. So I know a lot of business owners, they have this fantasy that they could just build this really irresistible brand like Walmart, right? Or like any.

Amazon and most small business owners, we don't have that kind of capital. We don't have we we didn't we didn't strike that particular golden nugget. Not saying you won't ever, but I'm just saying that there's an average case here that's actually pretty good. And the average case of being visible, offering free resources, being a an expert, and doing your expert positioning, like the average outcome for somebody who really does take this seriously and pay attention.

attention

to like I said, those middle indicators, not just the end result, is actually pretty good. I mean I've sold over three million dollars personally and I started with eight names on a post-it. I didn't even have most of the social accounts that I have now and much less tens of thousands of hours. And and I think like the the thing that I did that was maybe a little weird is I went for it.

And I just believed I really do believe that I can get better and I've I've believed that for the whole time. So that's my encouragement. Like don't don't hold yourself to an impossible standard and then never get started.

Rebecca Kaufman (22:19)

Amen. Well, thank you guys for tuning in. If you have any questions sprouting out of the today's episode, please

Amanda Kaufman (22:23)

the thing I'm saying.

Rebecca Kaufman (22:25)

leave them in the comments below. if you have another topic that you really want us to discuss and dive in a bit deeper, let us know that too. And if you know someone that should be on this podcast, you should send them this.

So that they can jump on. Okay. Bye guys.