Most six-figure service business owners hit a strange plateau. The first stretch of clients came easily, through friends, former colleagues, a networking group, a launch that popped. Then the referrals slow down, the second launch lands softer than the first, and the calendar starts to look thinner than it did a year ago. It feels like beginner's luck wearing off, and the frustrating part is that nothing obvious changed.

In this Double Kaufman episode of The Amanda Kaufman Show, co-host Rebecca Kaufman puts Amanda in the hot seat on exactly that stage of business: what got you here will not get you there. Amanda, founder of Clairvenu, explains what is actually happening when a referral network dries up, using a fruit tree metaphor that makes the whole thing click. She walks through the business model decision that comes before any marketing, what "working the leads" really means, the referral partner program she rebuilt after being too chintzy the first time, the reason she is still pro paid advertising, and the consistency habit she learned by studying the people she buys from.

Referral Networks Run Dry Because You Move Faster Than the Tree Can Grow

A referral network is a fruit tree, and most business owners simply pick it faster than it can produce more fruit at that level.

How It Matters: When a business first starts, the owner looks everywhere for fruit and cannot find any. Once they figure out a thing or two about high-ticket sales, they notice fruit lying on the ground all around them: the people in their network and network-adjacent who were waiting for someone like them to show up and do the thing. After the ground is cleared, they reach for the low-hanging fruit still on the tree, working referrals and working the network. At some stage they are reaching higher and higher, and the fruit has already been picked. Amanda's point is that this looks like beginner's luck, and what really happened is that the immediate network got taken care of.

How to Do It: Recognize the stage for what it is. Every client relationship has a sunset; people grow out of a service, move on, or change directions. A business needs systems that keep adding new people to the ecosystem, ideally faster than people are naturally leaving. Amanda calls that moment the point where you need a ladder, and the rest of the episode is about what the ladder is made of.

Common Mistake: Running the same launch again because the first one worked. Many owners gather leads onto a list, launch, get a result, then launch again and get a little less, then a little less again, without noticing they are reaching for fruit that has already been picked.

Design a Business Model With Recurring Revenue Before You Chase More Leads

The best businesses have a recurring revenue offer that keeps cash flowing even without new client acquisition, and that decision comes before lead generation and marketing.

How It Matters: Amanda admits she made this mistake herself: a lot of business owners design their business to be a one hit wonder without realizing it. They build a six-week program, run it, and then have to start from zero every time. In her view, every business has the opportunity to serve clients more deeply over a longer period, whether that is an upgrade to private coaching or continuing on inside a membership container.

How to Do It: Get obsessed with the actual problem your person is facing and how far you can solve it. Usually that takes more than one short program, so build options for people to keep going. Then treat the recurring offer, a subscription or a longer-term commitment, as the baseline of cash flow, and use launches for bumps and spikes on top of it. As Amanda put it, that is designing the business model so it actually pays you for all this effort.

Common Mistake: Relying on the launch model alone. Rebecca pointed out that with a launch-only business, nobody knows whether it worked until the launch is over, which is a lot of effort to put in without much certainty about the return.

Work the Leads You Already Have With Daily Outreach and a Promotional Rhythm

The people who did not buy from the last launch are still leads, and working them well is a both-and of daily one-on-one outreach plus a regular promotional rhythm.

How It Matters: Rebecca raised a point Amanda called really important: if 20 or 30 percent of a list popped in a launch, 70 percent did not, and there are lots of good reasons. Maybe the timing of the launch did not match the timing of their need. Maybe they liked the idea but are not someone who sits through a webinar and never saw the sales message at all. Amanda saw this first hand running a gamified lead generation program for a couple of years: people would end up with hundreds, sometimes thousands, of people on a list and never contact them again.

How to Do It: Build a daily cadence for having conversations with the people closest to a yes, and prioritize escalating those conversations. Then run a promotional rhythm alongside it, whether that is webinars, challenges, or something else. Rebecca's advice for anyone running ads is the same: engage with the leads as early as possible so the feedback loop starts right away, because there is usually a crazy in-between period where nothing seems to happen.

Common Mistake: Picking one side. Most entrepreneurs who get stuck at this level are either working everything one by one by one, or only working a mass approach, making a huge deal of a webinar and never talking to anyone individually. The result is a scary roller coaster where revenue does not cover what it costs to run the business, including the owner's salary.

Formalize a Referral Partner Program That Is Worth Their While

The first-step ladder channel Amanda recommends is a formal referral partner program, built on real relationships and an incentive big enough to change behavior.

How It Matters: The people who already know, like, and trust you are the most legitimate source of more people like them. Amanda's framing of the ask is simple: "I love working with you, and I thought the best way to meet more people like you is to ask you." Rebecca flagged that phrasing as the one to go back and listen to, because it makes the person feel like a rock star while being asked.

How to Do It: Cultivate real relationships first, then make the program genuinely attractive. Amanda's own early mistake was being chintzy with what she would pay for a lead and a connection. She rebuilt it after modeling the numbers in a spreadsheet in advance and designing it as a scalable system, which gave her the margin to pay partners properly and move them into true partner status. She cites Alex Hormozi's rule for any discount or incentive: make it significant enough to change behavior.

Common Mistake: Over-engineering the program and putting too much pressure on existing relationships to bring in business. A referral program works when the relationship is real and the reward is meaningful, not when it is a casual "here's 5 percent" or "here's a dollar."

Use Paid Advertising as a Faster Feedback Loop

Advertising scares a lot of people, but it is the same thing as organic social media with guaranteed views, and its real value is telling you the truth about your message faster.

How It Matters: The algorithm is under no obligation to show organic posts to anyone, so most people who treat posting like a check mark never get a feedback loop and never learn whether their material is good. Amanda's honest take is that it often is not, and paid advertising surfaces that quickly. She says that if she had not spent a lot on advertising, she probably would never have figured out that her marketing and message were not landing.

How to Do It: Put a small budget, even five dollars, behind a set of creative and copy for a lead magnet or a hand-raise. Then interact with the people who interact with it and ask a simple question: is this person really my person for my offer, or a random stranger on the internet? If the answer is silence or the wrong people, adjust the targeting, the message, the audience, and the credibility. The point is the feedback, and that is the reason Amanda is very pro advertising even now.

Common Mistake: Fearing the wrong outcome. Many owners avoid ads because they expect hate or cancellation, and the thing that actually happens is being ignored. Another common misstep is putting up an ad and hoping calendar appointments magically appear, instead of engaging the leads that come in.

Commit to the Long Plays and Stay Remarkably Consistent

There is no single strategy that saves the day, and what works is doing more of it all, for longer, with a consistent message.

How It Matters: Amanda calls it the rudest thing she says in the episode: everything you do and do not do affects the outcome. Owners who struggle are usually idea hopping, abandoning a launch strategy that kind of works to try a DM strategy, then a speaking strategy, then podcast guesting, starting over each time. From a brand positioning standpoint, being in the startover club tells everyone that starting over is who you are. Amanda got over her own pivot party by looking at the people she buys from and noticing they are remarkably consistent in messaging, appearance, and topic, saying the same thing for fifteen years across every channel she is on.

How to Do It: Increase the number of touch points a person has with your brand rather than swapping strategies. Make time now for the long plays, like a podcast or a book, because they are a considerable lift and the asset only exists if you start. Amanda's own show is around 500 episodes in and, by her account, in the top five percent of podcasts, which she attributes mainly to sticking with it. Planting the orchard now is what produces credibility later.

Common Mistake: Changing strategies so quickly that no skill set ever deepens. Amanda's observation is that most people are either so worried about what others think that they become a chameleon, or so scared of failing that they switch too fast, and they never build a feedback loop on the effort they are making.

Conclusion

A referral network drying up is a normal stage of a growing service business, not a sign that anything is broken. The way through is a ladder with several rungs. Design a business model with recurring revenue so cash flow does not depend on the next launch. Work the leads already on the list with daily outreach and a promotional rhythm. Formalize a referral partner program that rewards partners enough to matter. Use paid advertising to get honest feedback on the message faster. Then commit to the long plays and stay consistent, because the people who win are the ones still saying the same true thing years from now. You do not need to do all of it tomorrow, but you can probably do a lot more of it than you think.

To hear the full conversation, listen to Episode 362 of The Amanda Kaufman Show on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.

Frequently Asked Questions

What should I do when my referrals dry up?

Treat it as a stage of business rather than a failure. Amanda describes referrals as a fruit tree: the fruit on the ground and the low-hanging fruit get picked first, and eventually a business moves faster than the tree can produce. The next step is to add systems that bring new people in faster than clients naturally leave, starting with a formal referral partner program, paid advertising, and long-play channels like a podcast.

How do I generate leads beyond my personal network?

Amanda recommends a formal referral partner program as the first step on the ladder, followed by paid advertising for a faster feedback loop, and long plays like podcasting or writing a book that build credibility over time. She is clear that no single channel does it alone; the businesses that win increase the total number of touch points a person has with the brand.

What does it mean to work your leads?

Working your leads means contacting the people who have already raised their hand, repeatedly, rather than adding them to a list and never reaching out again. In the episode, Amanda describes a both-and approach: a daily cadence of one-on-one conversations with the people closest to a yes, plus a regular promotional rhythm like webinars or challenges.

Should a service business use paid ads to get clients?

Amanda is pro advertising, mainly because it tells you the truth about your message faster than organic posting. Even a small budget behind one piece of creative shows quickly whether the right people respond, and interacting with those people reveals whether the targeting, message, and credibility need adjusting. The most common outcome is being ignored, and that information is worth having early.

Where can I learn how to build a client acquisition system for my service business?

Amanda's free live training, How Serious Service Businesses Build High-Converting Funnels & Acquisition Systems That Run 24/7, walks through the pieces of a system that keeps new clients coming in beyond referrals. Register at https://clairvenu.com/training. If you want an outside perspective on your specific pipeline, apply for a free Revenue Clarity Conversation at https://clairvenu.com.

Transcript

Rebecca Kaufman (00:01)

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to another Double Kaufman show where you've got Miss Amanda Kaufman, pause for applause, and then you got me. And I am trying to pull all of the little genius nuggets out of Miss Amanda's brain from not only her own business but consulting for literally decades. So if you're ready to sit down and learn a little bit of something about lead flow, or you know, we call them leads, we call them potential clients, we call them prospects.

But every business needs them. So if you're ready to sit down and figure out how to get more of those inside of your business, this will be a good one.

Amanda Kaufman (00:36)

I can't wait. Let's talk about it.

Rebecca Kaufman (00:38)

Right after this message.

Alrighty. So where my brain is instantly going is what will get you here will not get you there. A lot of times we're talking to six-figure entrepreneurs that are already successfully selling their product. They this not their first rodeo, but they have ambitions to do even bigger. So talk to me about

Amanda Kaufman (01:15)

Well, to be impressed.

Rebecca Kaufman (01:16)

the lead problem that someone at that stage of business is gonna run into.

Amanda Kaufman (01:20)

Yeah, so I will explain that with a metaphor. So imagine that you've got a beautiful fruit tree and it's just abundant with fruit. So when we very first start in business, we're like, where's all the fruit? And we look everywhere for the fruit. I can't find the fruit. Now when you get to be, you know, that that business owner that's figured out a thing or two about high-ticket sales, you're like,

There's some fruit, and it's like literally falling off the tree, and it's like right around you. So you pick up all that fruit. And so the the fruit are the people that are in your network and network adjacent that you were able to sell to. And maybe you were able to go and join a networking group, or maybe you were able to activate your existing professional career to be able to get that low-hanging fruit of those initial yeses. And then you have picked up all the fruit off of the ground.

And now you're like, huh, I need more fruit. So, no problem. We got a bunch of low-hanging fruit still attached to the tree. So we grab that fruit and we're continuing to work our network. We're continuing to work our referrals. And at some stage, what ends up happening is you're moving faster than the tree can produce more fruit, at least at that level. So what ends up happening is we end up reaching further and and further.

Further

up into the tree until at some point we need a ladder. So that's kind of metaphorically what can happen is you it it seems like it's beginner's luck, and what's really happening is that the people in your immediate network have been waiting for someone like you to sh to show up and do the thing. And the thing is, is once you've taken care of them.

Where do we get more fruit? So that's the that's the reason it happens. And you know, I just want to say it out loud, like, how come this is important? Is because so many of us learned how to sell through launches. So if you kind of imagine that you've gathered all these leads onto your list initially, you ran your first launch, bang, you probably got some kind of a result.

And then you run the launch again because after all, wasn't it the launch that got you all that business? And it's like bang, you know, it's a little little less exciting, and so on and so forth. And what's happening is that you're essentially reaching further and further up into that tree to grab the fruit, and the fruit's already been picked. So

What do we do? Right. We we need the business to continue to have new customers because you're gonna have customers for super long time and you're gonna take care of them super well and they're gonna wanna pay you again and again. And every relationship has a sunset. Like at some point, they're going to grow out of your service or they're going to move on or move out or change directions. Like every relationship ends at some point. And so we need to have systems that help us make sure that.

Even as people are naturally leaving the business ecosystem, we're always adding more and ideally adding more at a faster rate than they're leaving.

Rebecca Kaufman (04:28)

Amen. Yes. Well, and I think the piece of this too is that like don't be afraid to work the leads that you got too. Cause I mean,

Amanda Kaufman (04:36)

That's true.

Rebecca Kaufman (04:38)

say you did that first initial launch launch and then you did your second launch and out of that list

You know, twenty percent popped, thirty percent popped, something like that. There's still seventy percent of people on that list that did not pop for whoever knows what reason. And

Amanda Kaufman (04:54)

Well, there are lots of really good reasons. Maybe

they didn't buy because the timing of your launch didn't match with the timing of their need. Maybe they like the idea of what you're saying, but they're not really somebody who sits through a webinar. So maybe, maybe they didn't even see your sales message. Maybe you need a different format.

Maybe there's like there's just so many things that make it possible that there's someone in the 70% to your point who and you just said something really important. I think a lot of business owners don't know how to work the leads. Like they don't even know what that means.

Rebecca Kaufman (05:29)

W okay. Well we can talk about that if you want to talk about that. Well won't I don't want to distract from lead generation, but let me tell you, if you're not working the leads, you're gonna get real frustrated when you start generating more of them and you're still not making the money. I'm just saying.

Amanda Kaufman (05:42)

Well, and we know this first hand, right? So we ran a program for a couple of years and it was amazing, state of the art.

gamified lead gen system. And basically it was like you join the program, you will have a list of leads, like zero question. We really dialed in that process. And the frustration that we felt over and over again was people would end up with hundreds, maybe sometimes even thousands of people on a list never to contact them again. So when we're talking about working the leads, what we're specifically saying is you've got someone who comes into your business.

is interested, has raised their hand as interested. And how are you contacting them again? I think our our the average entrepreneur that gets stuck kind of at this level, they're either working everything one by one by one by one by one.

Or they're only working a mass approach. So they're running like a webinar and making a big deal about that webinar and having like a huge lead up to this webinar, you know, and and making it a really, really big deal. And the whole time they're not talking to anybody one-on-one. And so I think like the really successful approach is actually a both and situation where you have daily outreach, you have a daily cadence of how

Having the conversations with the people who are closest to a yes and prioritizing escalating conversations to that place. And then you also have promotional rhythm where you also are running webinars. And I think like it could be webinars, it could be challenges, it could be anything. and I think like where people really kind of struggle is finding a balance between those two. And as a result, they end up on a really scary.

Roller coaster of not getting enough revenue coming into the business for the amount of money it takes to run the business, including your salary.

Rebecca Kaufman (07:33)

Well, and that launch model

can be really tough too. Like if that's all you're running and you're not gonna know if it's successful until after the launch is complete, like that's a lot of work effort to put in without like more certainty that you're gonna get a certain ROI on that effort, you know?

Amanda Kaufman (07:50)

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And you know, when it comes to consistency of your enrollment, I think the other big decision that a lot of business owners make not knowing is they design their business to be a one hit wonder. So they like

Rebecca Kaufman (08:05)

Okay. What?

Amanda Kaufman (08:07)

Yeah, so I made this mistake too, and that's why I can name it. But

Basically, instead of thinking about how what is the problem that my person is facing and to what extent can I solve it, and just getting really obsessed with that, you're gonna find that it's gonna take more than a six-week program that you run sometimes, right? You're gonna want to have options where people can upgrade to private coaching or they can continue on in a membership container, for example.

And like that's

Every business, every business has this opportunity to serve their clients more deeply over like a longer period of time. So, for example, the best businesses they typically have a recurring revenue offer. So, meaning it's like a subscription or a longer-term commitment that there's cash flowing in the business, even without new client acquisition. And then they use the launches to give bumps and spikes in.

their revenue, but they have kind of this baseline of cash flow already handled.

Rebecca Kaufman (09:11)

Yeah.

Amanda Kaufman (09:12)

And that's that starts even before you're thinking about lead generation and marketing. That's designing the business model that it's going to actually pay you for all this effort.

Rebecca Kaufman (09:23)

A thousand percent. Okay, so I'm at that point where I have gotten all the fruit from that I can reach with my hands without the ladder. What is the ladder? Like, what are ways that we can be generating leads? What are the ways that we can get higher up in that tree? Like, what are we doing? Are we planting more trees? Like, what's happening?

Amanda Kaufman (09:42)

You know, I've learned a lot of marketing from a lot of really smart people. And there's some strategies that are gonna be a really long play. And so I would say things like starting a podcast, long play. We're like 500 episodes in. So, you know, like there's

That's a long play. And same with like writing a best selling book. Long play. It's gonna take a significant effort and it's going to be a considerable lift. Now you also have the asset. So like now I get to say I've hit I've done five hundred episodes. You know what I'm saying? And I've earned I'm I I think we're in like the top five percent of podcasts.

Which is like nuts, right? So crazy.

Rebecca Kaufman (10:22)

No big deal.

Amanda Kaufman (10:24)

And like I can attribute that mainly just sticking with it. Like I know Mel

Rebecca Kaufman (10:29)

thousand percent.

Amanda Kaufman (10:29)

Robbins, you know, like I I'm not I'm not Lewis House. I'm not one of these like super famous podcasters.

But we were able to do it simply by sticking with it. So those are kind of long plays. And I think the thing about long plays is if you don't make the long play, if you don't make time for the long play now, you're never gonna have the long play. You know, it's like planting the orchard, right? So if you want that credibility in the future, you've got to start now and then just build, build, build. So those are those kinds of strategies. I think, like in terms of the the first step ladder kind of channels, I would recommend.

Few things. Number one, make sure you formalize a referral partner program. So this is like an affiliate program. You've already got people who know, like, and trust you. And so if you let them know, like, hey, I love working with you, and I thought the best way to meet more people like you is to ask you. And it's just it's such a legit way to do it. Now, I see some people they over-engineer and they overbuild their referral partner program, they put too much pressure.

On their existing relationships to bring me business. So that's not the right way to do it. The best way to do it is to actually build and cultivate real relationships with people and also make the referral program sexy AF. You know, one of the mistakes that that I made a long time ago is that I was really chintzy with what I would pay for the for the lead and for the connection. Now with the inner circle of Clairvenu you get 20% for everything.

Every

member that you refer up to the first five and 70% after that.

And yeah, it's like it's kind of insane. But the reason why it is is because I thought about the model in advance. I didn't just think about it, I put it in a spreadsheet. I I built the model in advance. I built it to be a scalable system, right? So I actually have the margin to be able to say, like, hey, you know, if you brought me five active paying members, bring me six, seven, eight, nine, and ten, right? Like, let's go. And because now we're really moving into partner status, not kind of a casual.

Like, here's 5% or here's a dollar, you know. I think Alex

Rebecca Kaufman (12:37)

Hello

Amanda Kaufman (12:38)

Ramosy says, like, if you're building an offer, like a discount or an incentive, you've gotta make it significant enough to change behavior. And I'm like, got it, Roger that,

Rebecca Kaufman (12:48)

Yeah.

Amanda Kaufman (12:49)

right? So that's one channel. I think another more immediate channel is advertising.

Which scares the crap out of people, but all it is is exactly what organic social media is. Only you're guaranteed a certain number of views and you can speed up how quickly your stuff is looked at, which gives you more impressions of the material that you're putting out there. So you'll find out that your material sucks really fast, right? Because you can put money behind it. When you are posting organically for free.

The algorithm is under no obligation whatsoever to show your stuff. And so because most people treat their posting like a check mark, they don't they don't really have a feedback loop. They don't know whether their stuff is good or not, and it's often not. and paid advertising can tell you the truth a little faster.

Rebecca Kaufman (13:38)

Well, and how how is it telling you the truth, just really specifically for a second?

Amanda Kaufman (13:42)

yeah, I mean, so let's say you're testing getting people to enroll in a lead magnet or to join your audience or to raise their hand. with paid advertising, you're gonna find out really quickly just because of the sheer volume of eyeballs that are gonna see your stuff. And a lot of people are really afraid of the internet because they're like, you know, I'm gonna get hate and people are gonna cancel me, and it's like all this drama.

The thing that's actually gonna happen is you're gonna be ignored. And that's not wonderful either, especially if

Rebecca Kaufman (14:12)

That's brilliant.

Amanda Kaufman (14:13)

you paid to be seen. But like let's just say you put five bucks behind a set of creative and copy.

You're gonna start to see people interacting with that. And what I like to do is I like to interact with the people after they've interacted. And I start to find out I'm like, is this person really my person for my offer? Or is this a random bored strange stranger on the internet? And if I'm getting either ignored or a lot of random bored strangers on the internet, I'm like, right, we need to adjust the targeting of our message and our audience and our credibility. We've got to adjust those things. And I think if I

hadn't spent a lot on advertising, I probably would never have figured out that actually our marketing and our message kind of sucked. Right? And you know, I I think I think it really is about getting that faster feedback loop. That's the reason that I'm very pro advertising even now. is just because you you get feedback so much faster. Well

Rebecca Kaufman (15:12)

Well, and I think the piece I wanna highlight is a couple of things

with the referral program, the way you framed the ask and you made them feel like a rock star while you were asking.

Go back and listen to that. That's exactly the phrasing that you should use. And then the actual engaging with the leads that you do get. Cause I think that a lot of times people put up an ad hoping that like calendar appointments are just gonna like magically appear on your calendar. And I think that there are definitely ways that that can end up being the case. But there's gonna be this like crazy in-between where like nothing happens and you engaging with the leads as early as possible to get that feedback loop going so you can get to that place is

It.

Amanda Kaufman (15:51)

It really is. And I understand the reason that people think that the marketing strategy is the is the solution or or the the thing that's gonna save your butt. And so you think that it's gonna be the webinar or you think it's gonna be the ad or you think it's gonna be the DM strategy. And I think like the rudest thing that I'm about to say today is it's all of it.

It's literally everything you do and do not do, all of it affects the outcome. And when I see people really struggling, it's because they're actually idea hopping. So they're going from like, launch strategy. No, forget my launch strategy that kind of works. I'm gonna like throw that out completely and I'm gonna go and do a DM strategy or I'm gonna go and do a speaking strategy or a podcast guesting strategy. So they abandon.

Abandon the strategy where they made a little bit of progress and they start completely all over and then that doesn't work, so then they start completely all over and then that doesn't work and so on. And what works, and again, I'm not going to be popular for saying this, what works is when you do it all.

And obviously we can't do all of it, but we can do a lot more than we think we can. And so if we can increase the number of touch points that a person has an opportunity to interact with our brand, then you're gonna win compared to someone who's like, never mind, and starting over. Because the other thing is, is like from a brand positioning standpoint, if you're in that startover club and you keep starting over and over and over again, you're

Telling

Rebecca Kaufman (17:32)

snap.

Amanda Kaufman (17:29)

everybody that that's who you are. You're telling everybody that you're somebody

Yeah, I know. I'm just feeling it, you know, today. But for real. For real, when you don't stick with something, I would I've now learned, and and it took me a while to get over the whole pivot party, you know, just like, that didn't work, pivot, pivot, pivot, pivot. What really helped me was

was just looking at the people that I've bought from. And I'm like, wow, they are remarkably consistent. And they're not just consistent in their posting schedule. I mean they're consistent in their messaging. They're consistent in how they appear. They're consistent in what they're talking about. They found the the the the nuggets of message that work and they've been saying the same damn thing for the last 15 years. Like not even close to kidding. Right?

Rebecca Kaufman (18:17)

Yeah.

Amanda Kaufman (18:18)

And and I'm like, wow, I actually love because they repeat themselves with something I agree with and I can stand behind and stand beside.

Over and over and over again in multiple different channels, I'm not just seeing them in one spot. I'm not like seeing them in my inbox once a week and going like, yay, I see them in my inbox, I see them on my YouTube, I see them in my Facebook, I see them on my gram, right? Like I see them everywhere. And even if what they change like their product that they're maybe promoting.

They, as a personal brand, are remarkably consistent. And that's even if I see them on stage or if I if I see them in person. It's like they are the same. And and most people are not. Most people are.

So worried about what everybody thinks of them that they're they're a chameleon or they're so scared that they're gonna fail ultimately in their business, they change strategies really, really, really quickly, and they just don't realize that they're not deepening skill set, and that's the reason that they're not making it, and they also don't have any feedback loops on the effort they are making.

Rebecca Kaufman (19:25)

Okay, we'll let that sink in with this quick message.

Alrighty folks, this is your moment to let us know what you thought of the episode. So if you have questions about the the lead flow, if you have questions about how to question your leads and see qualities there, if you have questions about literally anything we talked about in this episode, let us know in the comments down below. Share it with a friend. And if you know somebody who needs to be on this show, you gotta send it to them. You gotta let them know. It's just the friendly thing to do. And with that, guys, we're gonna let you go. Enjoy the rest of your day. Hopefully you got something valuable out of this.