Most business owners who are not closing enough clients arrive at the same conclusion: it must be a conversion problem. The calls are not turning into cash, so the fix must be better messaging, sharper positioning, or a few more magic words on the sales call. Meanwhile the calendar has one sales conversation on it, or none, and it has been three weeks since anyone was invited into the program. The diagnosis feels obvious, and it is often wrong.

In this Double Kaufman episode of The Amanda Kaufman Show, co-host Rebecca Kaufman asks Amanda the question straight: when the money machine is not moneying, how do you find the broken piece? Amanda, founder of Clairvenu, walks through the four activities every business runs on, the one question that reveals whether you have a sales problem or a visibility problem, the checklist trap that nearly sank her own company, the reason most conversion problems are actually offer problems, and the part reputation plays before anyone ever books a call.

A Business Runs on Four Activities, and the Problem Lives in One of Them

Diagnosing a business that is not working starts with knowing what a business actually does, and it is not a machine.

How It Matters: Amanda describes a business as four things: getting attention, having a connected conversation, inviting people into an offer, and fulfilling on that offer well. When the money is not showing up, the problem lives in one of those four, plus the operational job of managing your time and money so you do not run out of either. Most owners go straight to fulfillment, and for most of them that is the easiest part. Skill is table stakes. The real business of business is the other three.

How to Do It: Get information before you get a theory. A lot of owners live on a roller coaster where some weeks it rains closes and then nothing happens for a long stretch, and the only way to see where the roller coaster breaks is to capture the data on each of those activities.

Common Mistake: Believing that a perfect business system, once set, will keep everything sunny and measurable forever. Amanda sees this belief most in owners moving past six figures. There is no "set and done."

Ask How Many Offers You Made Last Week Before Calling It a Sales Problem

One question separates a sales problem from a visibility problem: how many offers did you make in the last week?

How It Matters: Amanda recently surveyed her clients about what they thought was wrong, and nearly all of them said they had a conversion problem. They know plenty of people; they just cannot convert them, and conversion is where the cash happens. When she asked how many offers they had made that week, the answers were "one" or "it has been three weeks." That is not a sales conversion problem. That is a get-calls-booked problem, and if you diagnose the wrong problem you go fix the wrong problem.

How to Do It: Count invitations before you judge closes. If the invitations are not happening, you have a visibility and marketing problem first, whatever your close rate looks like. Rebecca adds the practical side: if you are genuinely worried about your sales skills, the fastest way to improve them is reps, meaning calls on the calendar you can practice on. An untrained newcomer can expect to close roughly one in five, so five calls a week should produce a client a week even before the skills improve.

Common Mistake: Reaching for better messaging and positioning as the needle mover. Positioning matters, but it is rarely the lever people think it is. More magic words do not fix an empty calendar.

Do Not Build a Bigger Machine Until the Ratios Work

Complexity is not a growth strategy, and the way to know whether to build is whether you can sell it ugly first.

How It Matters: Amanda fell into this trap herself. She built the funnel, the pages, the video, the forms, the automations, the ads and every iteration of the ads, then added a team and a sales process, adding complexity every month. They would win a little, so she would double down on getting better at running the complicated machine. Eventually the machine cost more than the offer generated, and they had to fold all of it up. The reason she is still here is that she stopped asking how to build a bigger machine and started asking about ratios: inputs and outputs.

How to Do It: Adopt her standard. If she cannot sell it ugly, to someone she already has a connection with or a warm referral to, they do not build the rest of the machine. An offer that will not sell easily in that setting will not be rescued by bells-and-whistles marketing.

Common Mistake: Trying to work your way out of the problem with a longer to-do list without visibility on which problem you are actually solving.

Most Conversion Problems Are Actually Offer Problems

If people are seeing you and still not buying, the offer is usually the issue, and the fix is to be better than what the market already expects, not newer.

How It Matters: A bad offer with wonderful visibility gets you a lot of attention and none of the sales, and as Rebecca points out, you can pour endless energy behind a bad offer and it stays a bad offer. Amanda's colonoscopy example makes the point: specialists who provide a life-saving procedure do not run splashy ads, because primary care physicians with expert positioning recommend them. Owners who try to sell kale, or calm, or a process that is objectively good for people, get a snooze alert instead, because expertise alone does not make people drop everything and listen.

How to Do It: Look at the marketplace rather than at what you need to sell. Millions of people are paying to get their problems solved every day, and in most industries the average expectation is astonishingly low. Your differentiation is not to offer something new; it is to offer the same thing, except better. Better can mean faster, more reliable, higher quality, more extended benefits, cheaper, or cost avoidance. Find out what people expect, then beat it.

Common Mistake: Building the offer from your own expertise rather than from the problem you are actively solving for the person, so it lands far from where they are in their own self-discovery. Amanda's observation is that when owners struggle to convert, it is often because they know, quietly, that their stuff is not really better.

Conviction Sells, and You Cannot Fake It

If you are not behind your own offer at your core, it shows up in your marketing, your sales, and everything else.

How It Matters: Amanda built the Clairvenu Inner Circle from the perspective of being a member of that market: someone who had tried to keep up with multi-thousand-dollar coaching packages when what she needed was weekly motivation, and who had juggled multiple CRMs whose integrations kept breaking. During the recording of this very episode, ClairvenuOS booked multiple podcast appearances, signed a new referral partner, and handled customer service without her touching anything. That is the power of systems, and her conviction comes from knowing the nightmare of not having them: chasing every referral partner and podcast guest by hand.

How to Do It: Get fired up about the objective cost of doing nothing, not only the benefit of what you do. For Amanda, that cost is overpaying for coaching, overpaying for systems, and going without a community. That energy is what makes her attractive on shows, podcasts, and live stages. Amanda notes that Rebecca's success in sales came from the same place: she will not sell something she does not believe in, and she still has customers she closed years ago.

Common Mistake: Thinking about offer creation as building something for somebody else while privately unconvinced. Once you have the skill of selling and marketing you could apply it to almost anything, so the real question becomes what reasons you have for backing this particular thing.

Your Reputation Does the Converting Before the Call

The conversion piece is far less of an issue when you already walk around with a reputation for solving the problem.

How It Matters: People choose you for help because they associate you with the things they value when deciding whether to even talk to you about the problem. That is what a personal brand is. Amanda says the unpopular part out loud: if you have never actually facilitated the transformation you are hoping to sell, through training, mentorship, apprenticeship, volunteering, interning, partnering, or working in the industry, it should not be surprising that people are not banging down your door.

How to Do It: Push on the visibility envelope until you get enough, because "enough" is when the traction shows up. If it is not there yet, it is more likely a quality problem than a volume problem, and volume with a feedback loop produces quality, because you will not let it suck. Build credibility by showing up over and over, talking to the problems you solve, being seen to solve them, and earning legitimate awards. Amanda's million-dollar group award took two years of real risk and investment, which is exactly the reason she is proud of it. Credibility is not earned in a weekend of training; it is earned in the reps after the weekend.

Common Mistake: Expecting one Facebook post or one email to fill the calendar. Rebecca's reminder is to have grace for people who do not take the biggest leap right away. Without depth of content and length of relationship, a high-trust move is unlikely, so plan on more personal connection while the brand catches up.

Conclusion

Diagnose in order. Do you have the right offer, one that is objectively better than what the market expects? Is that offer getting in front of people? Are you inviting them into a sales conversation, and how many invitations did you make this week? Is the sales process happening, and are you collecting the cash? Working on sales skills before auditing the earlier steps is not worth your time yet, because the front end is where most stalled businesses are actually broken. Add real conviction, keep the machine small until the ratios prove it out, and build the reputation that makes the conversion conversation easy before it starts.

To hear the full conversation with Amanda and Rebecca Kaufman, listen to Episode 359 of The Amanda Kaufman Show on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.

Frequently Asked Questions

How do I know if my business has a sales problem or a marketing problem?

Count how many offers you made in the last week. If the answer is one, or it has been weeks since you invited anyone into your program, you have a visibility and marketing problem, not a sales problem, regardless of your close rate. Sales skills only become the bottleneck once invitations are happening consistently.

What is a reasonable close rate for someone new to sales?

Roughly one in five. Amanda and Rebecca note that even an untrained newcomer can expect a close rate around 20 percent, so five sales calls a week should produce about one new client a week. Improving your skills can move that to two or three in five, and after the fundamentals it is mostly a matter of style.

Should I build a funnel and automations before my offer is selling?

No. Amanda's standard is "if I can't sell it ugly, we don't build." If an offer will not sell easily to someone you already have a connection or warm referral with, more machinery will not rescue it, and the machine can end up costing more than the offer earns. Prove the ratios first, then build.

How do I compete when my market is crowded?

Be better, not newer. In most industries the average expectation is very low, so your differentiation comes from offering the same thing people already expect, except faster, more reliable, higher quality, richer in benefits, or cheaper. Find out what the market expects, then beat it, rather than trying to be the first person ever to sell something nobody is looking for.

Where can I get help diagnosing what is actually wrong in my business?

If you have tried to diagnose it and still cannot see what you are missing, reach out to Amanda. You can apply for a free Revenue Clarity Conversation at https://clairvenu.com, and if you want the coaching, community, and ClairvenuOS systems Amanda describes in this episode, the Clairvenu Inner Circle is at https://clairvenu.com as well. Amanda and Rebecca are also looking for business owners willing to be a case study on the show's "Here, Let Me Do That For You" episodes; apply at https://clairvenu.com/the-podcast.

Transcript

Rebecca Kaufman (00:00)

Hello, hello, and welcome to the Amanda Kaufman Show. We're stoked to have you here. And so you've got Miss Amanda over here who's the business expertise extraordinaire. And then you got me. I'm the little sister. I am the pull things out of her brain person. so if you are jealous and you want to be in my seat, you should let us know and come on podcast. But anyways, today's the the question. Like, I think I have a conversion problem, but like

How do I know what the problem is specifically? Like is it the marketing? Is it my sales calls? Like what's where's the broken piece?

Amanda Kaufman (00:31)

That's so good.

I I think there's a belief that's really prevalent in entrepreneurship, especially as you kind of are moving past the six-figure mark and you're starting to do multiple six figures, or you've just been at this for a while, is that if you just have this perfect business system, that everything will be perfect and sunny, and you will be able to measure your return on your investment, your ROI, and you're gonna have profit and it's gonna be glorious. And and once it's set.

then you're set. And it's kind of like this this whole set sort of a feeling. So I'm really excited to talk about this because yeah I think it's gonna shift shift some things for some folks today.

Rebecca Kaufman (01:11)

All right, we're gonna get into it right after this message.

All right, the money machine is not moneying, it is not working. How can I diagnose what is going wrong?

Amanda Kaufman (02:11)

So good.

I I I think the first thing is it's not exactly a machine. I know the machine thing is a really good metaphor and it helps us organize all of the ideas in our head. I've shared before that a business is essentially getting attention, having a conversation and connection, inviting into an offer, then doing a great job fulfilling on the offer. The end. So I think like when your money machine is not working, it's probably one of those four areas. You're and and

Most people go straight away to the fulfillment side of things, and actually that can be the easiest part for most business owners. Yes, you need to have skill, but that is like baseline stakes. If we just assume that those the skills have been skilled and that you can actually deliver on what you promise, the real business of business is really about those other things, about gaining the attention, having the right connected conversation, making the invitations, and OPS managing.

Your operations and your money along the way to make sure that you do not run out of either time or money. So it's like the management side of things, but essentially the activities are those three. So usually if it ain't working,

Rebecca Kaufman (03:23)

Are

Amanda Kaufman (03:23)

we can actually diagnose it.

Rebecca Kaufman (03:25)

you gonna make me talk about data again?

Amanda Kaufman (03:28)

Maybe.

so firstly, just capturing data really makes a big difference because for a lot of business owners, you might have like kind of a a roller coaster going on where some days it's raining and you're getting all the closes and life is so good, and then you go like these long

Dips where ain't nothing happening, there's no news, and that's bad news, right? And so, how do we diagnose what's really going on? Well, it starts with actual information. So I recently did a survey where I asked my clients what do they think the problem is, and they all said that they thought they had a conversion problem. So, meaning like

in the I put it in the in the language they would use, they were convinced that it was they know a lot of people, they just don't know how to convert them. And the conversion's where the cash happens. Just to be super clear, like for anybody listen listening in case we're using different language, conversions where the cash happens. So when somebody's complaining about conversion, the very next question I'd like to ask is how many offers did you make?

In the last week. And then they say, one, or it's been three weeks since I've invited anybody into my program. I'm like, is that a sales conversion problem that you're not collecting cash? Or do we have a get calls booked problem? And if we are basically diagnosing the wrong problem, we go to fix the wrong problem, here's what happens.

A lot of people think that they need to have more magic words. They think they need to have better messaging or improved positioning in order to make more sales. And that's simply not true. I think positioning is really important. but it's not the needle mover that a lot of people think it is. And yeah, so if you're not getting the c the the invitation.

opportunity you actually have probably more of a visibility and marketing problem than you do a sales problem, at least initially.

Rebecca Kaufman (05:22)

Well, and this is a little side tangent, but if you actually are concerned about your sales skills, you know what makes it a hell of lot easier to improve that? Having reps and having calls on the calendar so you can practice. Just saying.

Amanda Kaufman (05:33)

It's true.

It's true. And I mean you shared in another episode that, you know, even without training, a newbie can expect a close rate of around 20%. So that's not bad for having no training at all.

Rebecca Kaufman (05:44)

Yeah. That means if you do five like sales calls a week, you should get a new client every week.

Amanda Kaufman (05:49)

Yeah. Yeah. And there's definitely skill to it. I mean, to be able to close two out of five or three out of five because you have improved sales skills. I mean sales skills are worth investing in. And after you have the fundamentals, it's style pretty much after that.

Rebecca Kaufman (06:05)

Right.

Amanda Kaufman (06:06)

Mm-hmm. Yeah. So I think the I think the thing that people I wish I knew a lot sooner is you're not gonna build your business by building a big checklist of to-dos and tasks and just working your way out of the problem without visibility o on what problem you're solving.

So I definitely fell into the trap of like, okay, well, I've got the funnel, I built the funnel. I did got the pages, I built the pages, I got the video, I recorded the video, I did the the the forms and and I did the forms and the automations and the advertising and all the different iterations of the ads. And I just like went through all of these different pieces. And then of course I had to add the teams. Now I'm adding team, I'm adding sales process, I'm adding what? I'm adding complexity.

So what ends up what ended up happening is I would add, add, add, add, add, and we'd win, but like a little. And then we would go another month and I'd be like, okay, I'm gonna double down and we're gonna get even better at the skill of this super complicated machine. And what ended up happening is we ended up having to fold up all of it and not do any of the complexity of the machine anymore because the machine itself was costing more than we were generating with the offer.

This happened several years ago now. And I'm still here. And the main reason I am is because instead of going for build a bigger machine that makes more money, I started asking about ratios. So again, it's like inputs and outputs. I now have a standard where if I cannot sell it ugly, we don't build.

Rebecca Kaufman (07:38)

Yeah.

Amanda Kaufman (07:38)

Because if it if if I can't sell it to somebody that I have connection with or I'm in a close kind of a referral situation with and it won't sell really easily, we don't build the rest of the machine. And I think a lot of business owners, we have it backwards. They think that it's a conversion problem. Really, it's an overall offer problem. What you're offering isn't clear enough that without bells and whistles marketing.

Which is not gonna work even if the off like if you have a bad offer with wonderful visibility, you're gonna get a lot of attention and you're not gonna get

Rebecca Kaufman (08:13)

No.

Amanda Kaufman (08:14)

you're not gonna get the sales that you're looking for.

Rebecca Kaufman (08:16)

And you can pour a whole lot of energy, a whole lot of time behind a bad offer. Still gonna be a bad offer. I don't know. I

Amanda Kaufman (08:22)

Mm-hmm.

Rebecca Kaufman (08:23)

I've seen so many times where someone builds out like the offer they know that people need, but the way they frame it is just like it's so out from where their person is, like in the in their own self-discovery of this process. Like you really have to meet your person where they're at. So if you're building your offer from the basis of your own expertise as opposed to

problem you're actively solving for the person, that might be a problem.

Amanda Kaufman (08:46)

I was actually I know this is a crazy example, but we're here and it came to my brain. colonoscopies. So imagine that you knew imagine

Rebecca Kaufman (08:55)

That's gonna be a pattern interrupt.

Amanda Kaufman (08:58)

that you knew that a colonoscopy could be a life-saving treatment for somebody who had, you know, cancer history in the family. And you like know this information, and you're like, wow, I wish everybody knew this information.

You'll notice that a lot of those particular specialists, they don't really do a lot of advertising. How come? Well, because people talk to their their doctor, their their personal care physician, their PCP, about their health and their PCP and it it someone with expert

positioning will recommend the procedure. So there's no need to do like all this crazy advertising for if you were a colonoscopy doctor. All you have to do is make sure that the primary care physicians know about you. And there's ways that they do that. But I I think that there's a lot of people who have this idea that's like it's good for you and they try to rant okay instead of colonoscopy, they they're trying they're they're pushing kale. It's like they're trying to sell kale

calm meditation they're trying to sell these processes that are good for the person but it's a snooze alert you know total snooze fest and then the expert positioning gets undermined because maybe you are the world's foremost expert on kale

Let's just say for an example.

Rebecca Kaufman (10:14)

Mm-hmm.

Amanda Kaufman (10:17)

just because you know how very, very, very good for people kale is does not mean that they're suddenly gonna drop everything and hear everything that you have to say about kale. For example, right?

Rebecca Kaufman (10:27)

Yeah.

Amanda Kaufman (10:28)

So I do think that learning what do people expect in the marketplace and how do you make it better than they expect. As opposed to

Rebecca Kaufman (10:37)

No, no, no. Say that

again. Say that one more time.

Amanda Kaufman (10:40)

How do you find out what people in the marketplace expect and then how do you make it better than they expect? As opposed to being the first person ever to have a mastermind on eating more kale.

Right. I I think like when you start looking at the market as opposed to what do I need to sell, but you're really looking at it as like there's a marketplace, there's millions and millions and millions of people out there, and they all got problems and they're paying to get them solved, and that's happening every day to the tune of multiple trillions of dollars. And you just realize like how much there is happening already out there.

And be willing to compete a little bit. Because I gotta tell you, most most industries, the average expectation is so low. It is so low. And so then your competitive differentiation is not to offer something new, but the same, except better.

And better could be faster, better could be more reliable, better could be higher quality, or better could be more extended benefits, better could be cheaper, right? Or cost avoidance. There's so many ways to be better. And a marketing message isn't gonna compete.

when you don't have a offer that's objectively better. So when people struggle with conversion, I think a lot of times it's cause they know their stuff isn't really better. Because they're just kind of making it up.

Rebecca Kaufman (12:06)

Well, and if you're in that headspace too, it's hard to like throw your whole person behind it. And if you're not throwing your whole person behind it,

That's gonna come across in your marketing, that's gonna come across in your sales, like that's gonna come across in everything. Like that's that's such like a a a core energy that you're bringing into your business. If you're not convinced your stuff is good, yeah, that's fair. We're gonna come right back after this message.

Amanda Kaufman (13:20)

You know, thinking about really good offers, you know, we just did that ad on on Clairvenu and what I was building there. And

I know firsthand what it's like to try to keep up with multi thousand dollar coaching packages when what I really need is weekly motivation. I know what it's like to have multiple different CRMs and technology that just gives you a headache and the integrations break, and every time you think you've got it all figured out, you don't, you know, and I know what that complexity can cost because I first hand experienced that and I experienced what it was.

like. So when I built the Clairvenu Inner Circle as an offer, I didn't just like imagine, boy, it would be cool to have a community that talks about revenue clarity. Like, gee, that'd be great. I

I'm coming from the perspective of being a member of that market and recognizing coaching helps a ton, community helps a lot, systems don't need to be all that crazy expensive, and I can actually move really, really fast when I have a great system. For example, using Clairvenu OS. During this recording session, I have had multiple podcasts get booked, I've had a new referral partner.

get signed up and I've had customer service take place without touching anything.

Rebecca Kaufman (14:40)

Well, you're talking to me.

Amanda Kaufman (14:41)

While I'm speaking with you.

Rebecca Kaufman (14:43)

That's pretty good.

Amanda Kaufman (14:43)

It's pretty amazing, right? And that's the power of systems. But that's the reason that I have so much conviction behind what I'm doing is because I also know the nightmare of what it's like when you don't have those systems. Because if you don't have those systems, guess what? I gotta chase down the referral partner. I gotta chase down the podcast guest. I gotta chase down all these issues because the system doesn't actually like it's not there to like support and hold the business owner. And you know, I I

I get fired up about it. And and I think, like, if you wanna have more conversion, I think the first thing is you gotta get really fired up about not just the benefit.

Of what it is that you do, but also the objective cost. What happens if you don't? If you don't join the inner circle or something equivalent, you will overpay for awesome coaching. You will overpay for your systems and you could go without a community, and that's freaking disaster, right? So I get I get really fired up, but then that helps me so much because when it comes to doing shows and podcasts and interviews, I'm gonna be doing a live event tomorrow where I'm gonna be leading.

the room, my energy ends up being amazing and attractive and pulling other people towards it because I believe in what I'm doing.

Rebecca Kaufman (15:57)

It's so true. And it's like it's such a basic, but I think it's something that people gloss over all the time. Like

Whenever people talk about offer creation, they think about it from the perspective of like I'm building this for somebody else. But like if you're not behind it, dude, like truly, like at

Amanda Kaufman (16:10)

Good luck.

Rebecca Kaufman (16:11)

your core, you need to work on something.

Amanda Kaufman (16:14)

Absolutely, absolutely. I mean like after you develop the skill of selling and marketing, you could apply that to practically any product or service in the world. So then the question becomes, how come I'm supporting that that thing? You know, what what what is what are my reasons for supporting the success of that particular service or product? And you know, the

I've I've trained a lot of salespeople over the years, and one of the reasons I feel that you were very successful is because of the conviction that you carry. And yes, you have skills, and yes, you you ain't no dummy, for sure, for sure, for sure. And I also know you won't sell something that you don't believe in. Right?

Rebecca Kaufman (16:52)

No.

Amanda Kaufman (16:52)

So we spent a lot of time like making the program as good as it could really, really be. And you know, I still have customers that you sold years and years ago.

Rebecca Kaufman (17:01)

Hello people, if you see this, I miss you. Okay, bye.

Amanda Kaufman (17:06)

Yeah, conviction for sure. and and and I would also just ask the question, am I really pushing on the the visibility envelope? And to give you an idea of how much, because people ask this all the time, like how much is enough?

It's enough when you get enough. Like if you if you are not getting the kind of traction that you're looking for, then it's not yet enough. And it may not be enough in volume. More likely it's not enough in quality. And the fun thing about volume is if you are reflective and you have a feedback loop with volume, the quality will happen. Because you won't let it suck. Right? Yeah.

Rebecca Kaufman (17:43)

Yeah. Well, and I

think the thing that's coming up for me too as you're working on that visibility, like I always think of this like dream scenario where you just like make a Facebook post or you just send an email and then all of a sudden you've got your calendar filled with as many sales closets you'd like. I think just having a lot of grace for people not taking the biggest leap right away.

And understanding that even when you do put those offers out there, like you still are gonna have to massage people to get them on, especially at the beginning, because like if you don't have the depth of content, if you don't have the length of relationship and nurture, the likelihood that someone's gonna do like that high trust move just cause you asked in an email.

You gotta be willing to put in more personal connection while you're working on those other skills as you're building up your own personal brand.

Amanda Kaufman (18:28)

That's that's super true. And and I think like ooh, the personal brand, I'm so glad you brought that up. Because people don't realize how important your reputation as it pertains to what you're doing counts. You know? gosh. we could really get into a whole thing. But in general, just like slow down and really consider this.

The conversion piece probably wouldn't be so much of an issue if you were already walking around with a reputation for solving the problem. So this may not be a popular thing for me to say, which makes it feel extra important to say. Is if you have not helped people.

through training, through mentorship or apprenticeship, through volunteering or interning, if you've never actually facilitated the transformation you're hoping to sell, either like I said, by partnering with somebody else or working for somebody else or working in the industry in some other way, can we be all that surprised that people aren't exactly banging your door down to ask for help?

Often when people are choosing you to for help, it's because they associate you. That's what it means to have a personal brand. They associate you with the things that they value in making the decision whether to talk to you about the problem, even. And so I'm not saying that you need to have like a New York Times best selling anything. You certainly don't need hundreds of thousands of followers. It's not really about popularity, it's more so

About credibility of showing up over and over again, talking to the problems that you solve, being seen to solve the problems, maybe earning awards for it, legit awards. Don't pay for an award, please. Don't just pay for awards to say that you know you've got it. I mean, earn them.

Earn the awards. Like that one right there, the million dollar group award, that took me two years, tremendous risk and investment. to be able to earn that. I still feel really, really proud of that award because we did the work to earn it. So when you do that.

It helps with the credibility. Credibility is not earned with a weekend away. It's you might get training over a weekend, that's true. It's the reps that happen after the weekend that earn a reputation and also reinforce your conviction in your skills and ability to help others.

Rebecca Kaufman (20:56)

All righty guys, I think we're gonna leave it at that. We got one more message for you, and then we'll we'll give you some parting notes.

Alrighty guys, that was a that was a meaty episode on how to diagnose your conversion problem. And we covered a lot of ground in this episode, so I just want to acknowledge that really fast. So if your head's spinning a little bit, it's cool. Just re-listen to this maybe a few times because there's there's different pockets of really good wisdom in here. But essentially what it boils down to is like, do you have the right offer? Is the offer getting in front of people? Are you marketing? Are you inviting people to the sales process? Is the sales process

happening and are you ket catching cash and that's the order in which you need to diagnose this. If you're if you're just working on sales skills but you have not audited any of those other pieces, this is not worth your time for yet. We gotta work on the front end. But here's the here's the funny thing I want to save Amanda's game for, but like if you don't know how to diagnose it and you've tried to diagnose it and you're still like, I don't know what I'm not seeing here, you should reach out to Amanda. We do this.

And we also want to do some episodes of like let me show you. So if you're open to being a case study and like letting somebody else benefit from your learning, let us know that too, because we'd love to like break this down in a really like tactical way so you guys can actually see how we're looking at things.

Amanda Kaufman (22:45)

Absolutely. And wherever you happen to be listening or watching, we already have a playlist on YouTube for here. Let me do that for you with our first episodes that have come out. So if you want to walk through real time what it could be like to have a one-on-one conversation, it's already out there and we'd also love to feature you. So definitely check the link around this episode and let us know that you're interested. Well, thank you for your time.

Rebecca Kaufman (23:08)

Thousand percent. Well thanks guys for your time. Hope you got

something really awesome out of this episode. Be sure to rate and comment if you have any questions. And we'll see you in the next one.